Definitive 200 Albums of all time...Wrong Bitch!

There has been much ballyhoo over the recent "Definitive 200 Albums of all time" produced by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

http://www.definitive200.com/200_list.php

There is a strong marketing campaign associated with the list and it is clear that it is simply an avenue to sell records.

So in that, the list is a total waste of time.

I personally love lists like these...when they are good. I am not saying my whole music collection has to be on the list, but most of it better be and if not, you better be teaching me something about a band I NEED TO KNOW, not trying to tell me that one of the 200 definitive albums of all time is by Avril Lavigne #162...FUCK OFF, and that EVERY SINGLE DIXIE CHICKS ALBUM is definitive. No I am not kidding.

I just read some pretty good chatter about the list, and it is basically two camps. What made it and what didn't. "I can't believe this obscure bullshit artist didn't make the list, while that pop queen did". OR "How does the Velvet Underground, the major influential band of the last 30 years not have an album on the list?"

I support both of these camps equally. Someone said if you want to talk sales, just release a billboard 200 all time, if you want people to learn about roots, benchmarks, highs and gritty lows then put some thought into the list.

There is at the very least some selfrealization that if alot of people bought the record it may make it worth mentioning, but for the most part the complainers are ABSOLUTELY correct when they say TEACH don't TELL.

As for this list, by my VERY GENEROUS count there are 65 albums on the list that should never have been released let alone placed on a top 200 list. That was a five minute scan. Give me an hour and a list of what wasn't there and I think 70 albums MIGHT survive the cuts. Now that is a bad start.

As for me, I will listen to anything. I have plenty of guilty pleasures, not worth mentioning (they are a secret), but this list tops all when it comes to dated bullshit that won awards in 1981 and was never heard from again (Top Gun Soundtrack #117). Worse still is the huge amount of American music that is just plain shit (GRAND FUNK RAILROAD #200) and even worse than that it is the obvious attempts to internationalize the list with crap so bad it didn't sell in its own country (Shakira #172).

What makes the list truly horrible is the "independant reviews" used to complie the list and "justify" the selection. Clearly that fact that experts from all over were used as the base for the list would suggest that their opinions were also somehow used to create this list. WRONG

Here is a great example of 2 albums I don't think belong, BUT one of them could make it if I was to consider impact, popularity, staying power etc. Also it gets in because old Mace is a guilty pleasure.

So at number 57 the list has 50 cent 'get rich or die tryin' with the following quote/review accompanying the album.

"so it’s a can’t-miss record, right? Well, mostly."...

Hold on. The number 57 definitive album of all time is reviewed as mostly can't miss. We will need to clear this up.

"Sure, Get Rich could never have lived up to the hype, it’s nowhere near Biggie's Ready to Die or Nas's Illmatic"
Really, cause "Ready to Die" isn't in the top 200 and Nas's Illmatic charted at number 187. In fact the only Notorius album on the list is "life after death" and it charts at 59...after "get rich".

How can you possibly justify a chart position with a review that doesn't back it up?

I use these examples to not jade my commentary with my own feelings because I wouldn't put any of these albums on the list. You could not find me more dated, one hit wonder albums (they do many times over, Footloose soundtrack #134 for instance, but the statment is for effect). When you talk about definitive records you have to speak of an album not identified by one song. If you say "exile on main street" to people you will probably get 4 to 5 different songs mentioned as the seminale song.

I don't know if this list makes me angry or has put me in shock.

The fun part of the list is to find one fo the ridiculous inclusions and then find what comes right after that album. The list loads 25 albums at a time so the impact is even greater. For instance:

21 Shania Twain - Come on over.

Sure it sold millions, but can anyone name a song on the album? All of her incredibly successful shit melts into one. How can you tell one album from the next. You can't. That is why...

A) she, nor her albums are Definitive (as she laughs at me on a huge pile of money)

and

B) When placed in context with its surroundings, that album certainly does not belong ahead of

22 The Who - Who's Next
23 Steve Wonder - Songs in the key of life
24 Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
25 Pink Floyd - The Wall

Just looking at it, makes it even sillier. How can you create a list that includes these four albums and any Shania Twain album. Better still, how does that Shania Twain album, or any of her albums finish ahead of these four albums? Trust me there are 100 other albums after these that should be ahead of the Twainer, but the point should be screaming at you now.

Just look at the list. 22 is the greatest mistake album of all time. It happened by accident and is the crown jewel in the career of one of the biggest and best bands in the world. It is also, arguably, my favorite album of all time. It doesn't belong at number 1, mine is a personal preference, but it certainly belongs ahead of 'come on over'. "Who's next" in case you have forgotten contains :

1. Baba O'Riley 2. Bargain 3. Love Ain't For Keeping 4. My Wife 5. The Song Is Over 6. Getting In Tune 7. Going Mobile 8. Behind Blue Eyes 9. Won't Get Fooled Again

That is just the cheap album. The new release they refer to then proceeds to blow your mind with:

10. Pure And Easy 11. Baby Don't You Do It 12. Naked Eye 13. Water 14. Too Much Of Anything 15. I Don't Even Know Myself 16. Behind Blue Eyes

You don't even have to be a fan to recognize the staying power of just 3 of these songs. At just nine songs this album was a straight through tour de force. The extras are fantastic to a fan and would earn converts, but the nine songs stand alone. As for Come on over, it had easily 6 number one hits on various charts and sure Shania sold a lot of copies, but 'Don't be stupid' 'man I feel like a woman' 'that don't impress me much' and 'rock this country' cannot, under any circumstance be mentioned in the same breath as Bargain, Baba O'Reilly and Won't get fooled again.

As for the other albums, all of which I own and love, first you have the final great work from a man who spoke for a generations of Americans with songs that were as enjoyable to mainstream White America as they were IMPORTANT to Black America. So yeah, I guess 'come on' over trumps that. Then you have an album that is home to 6 songs etched in the subconcious of Americans over 30, contains THE GREAT lovers quarrel put to music, and one of the few records that could boast selling more copies than 'come on over', if that is they way we are judging things. So I guess 'Come on over' has that beat because.....? Even at its own ridiculous game, Rumours has to beat Come on over if this list is to stick to its own weird rules. As for The Wall, as a whole it is called uneven, but aren't the simple pieces of the album, 'another brick in the wall' by itself, more definitive of a period, country, people ETC. ETC. That album because of its impact and staying power HAS TO BE more important than an album a bunch of lame white women over 30 really liked that summer a few years ago, with the videos ETC. ETC.

I spent a lot of time on one example, but I am sure there is another, let me look for a minute...(I really am going to look mid Blog)

Okay, it took a while and then BOOM. There are horrible examples, but their impact was lessened by the fact that the real criminals were bookended by equally ridiculous albums making 4 greats in a row even more difficult to find. BUT

107 Kenny G - Breathless

Followed directly by

108 NWA - Straight out of Compton
109 Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bullocks
110 Beatles - Rubber Soul
111 Radio Head - OK Computer

Is this example worse than the first? I think you could argue this example has a much wider appeal and would certainly be considered worse to a hell of a lot of people, black, white, old, young, wierd, outsiders, insiders ETC. Is it worse, whose to say, but yeah, it is worse, at the very least, Shania is hot and easy to look at and almost everybody in the world bought her records. 200,000 soft jazz albums is not exaclty definitive.

Too me, if you define definitive, there is nothing more definitive of a time, place, artist, style or gendre than NWA's Straight outta compton. I can't really say anymore about that. If you want definitive, that is it. Even a Kenny G fan would have to admitt that as much as they love Kenny he has never screamed this loud, summed anything up so well and put it in everyone's face this much.

Sex Pistols DITTO. No I am not lazy, I mean it. This is the loud in your face scream of a band from a very specific time and place and they nailed it.

Now Rubber Soul isn't the same kind of time and place scream, but in 1966 it basically was. They showed the world the way in 1964 and 1965, and then changed the fucking rules. I don't know much about soft jazz or the alto sax, but I doubt 'Breathless' did that for an entire gendre. Rubber Soul was a coming out party for a band that already came out. The lost quality of the Beatles is that in 5 1/2 years they developed at a pace that would make a steriod athelete jealous. They started it, changed it, went back to it and changed it again and left it burning on the table. We still talk about the "it" and are still amazed. We talk about "it" so much peopel are getting sick of "it". They really were the modern Bach, Mozart etc. So where does that leave Kenny G after the Beatles first great developmental step? 3 places ahead of them apperently.

Now in fairness, I don't get Radio Head, I tried, I have the albums, this one included, but I just can't see them through "creep". That said, millions do and swear by everything the say and play. So with that in mind, I am told that while this album is no KID A, it is apperhently not far off. For radio head this is their 'Rubber Soul' on the way to "Revolver" if you will. This band gets called influential, the future of music, etc. all the time so I am just suggesting now, that even though I am not a fan, this band, so important to music over the past 10 years has produced something more 'definitive' than Kenny G did on Breathless...just sayin'

More deep thoughts in the next episode

I found a few more examples, but was beat down by like 6 bad albums in a row. Right after my previous example came a sting so great I can't believe it happened. It is like winning lottery numbers.

117 Top Gun soundtrack

YES I FUCKING JUST WROTE THAT. Do I go on? Does it really matter what comes after? It must be better, it has to be better.

To refresh the Top Gun soundtrack contained 'Danger Zone', 'Take my breath away', 'heaven in your eyes'.......no that really is it. I struggled with the third song and only included it because as a 30 year old Canadian I am legally required to like Loverboy. So in the history of recorded music this album was deemed the 117 definitive album of all time. that in itself is a staement and a half. I need a minute.

Okay so what came after?

118 Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
119 Police - Syncronicity
120 No Doubt - Tragic Kingdom
121 Rolling Stones - Beggars banquet

WHAT THE FUCK!

118- Goodbye yellow brick road- Elton John's masterpiece, and I mean masterpiece. I won't even look at the liner notes for this. 'Candle in the wind', 'yellow brick road', 'grey seal', 'Jamacian jerkoff', 'Roy Rodgers', 'all the young girls love Alice', 'dirty little girl', 'Ballad of Danny Bailey', 'Sweet painted lady', Saturday night's alright for fighting' and oh yeah (quick check) I forgot 'Bennie and the fucking jets'.

If the Who's Next is my favorite album, it is because sometimes I forget I own this album. It is so fucking good, it isn't fair to other albums. The fact that it only gets to 118 is the real crime, not that falls after the FUCKING TOP GUN SOUNDTRACK. This is the worst crime of the century, a young century, but until we have a world war, this is the FUCKING CRIME OF THE CENTURY.

119 - syncronicty - Police - Okay so, Syncronicity. Track 7, 8 and 9 trump anythign on the Top Gun Soundtrack, and in a heads up comparison of the "breath" sounds, I would wager my home and family that no one would say 'take my breath away' is a better song, more definitive, has a greater impact than 'every breath you take'. Plus this is not a greatest hits collection, it is a Police album, not my favorite, but the quality can't be denied. A collection of random singles cannot beat an ALBUM, in a definitive album ranking.

120 - Tragic Kingdom. This album is definitive, no question, it has it all, and it captured a moment. Sure Top Gun captured a moment, but I think everyone can agree it did it for all the wrong reasons. As for tragic Kingdom, if nothing else it gave the 90's its 'these boots' or 'I am woman'. Fuck girl power, that was a good song. Yes I like this album, yes I love this album. When I saw 'I'm just a gril' performed on David Letterman before this album came out, I was blown away. Everything about that song and the three other massive hits on the album speaks to something. If 'breathaway' and 'danger zone' are better songs than 'just a girl', 'spider webs', 'don't speak' or 'Sunday morning' well fuck my ass.

121 - Beggars banquet - What the hell do I say? I probably have a three or four way tie for my favorite Rolling Stones album, but outside that fight, this album will always make my top five albums period, so ranking it against the Top Gun soundtrack is fucking hurtful. First, this album has BOTH 'Sympathy for the devil' and 'street fighting man' so the case is not just closed the album needs to move up 50 places. BUT, forgetting that, take those two songs and throw them in the trash and get a hobo to whisper the lyrics to 'parachute woman', 'stray cat blues' or 'dear doctor' directly in my ear and this album still trumps Top Gun. Ask fucking Nirvana where they stole the rif to "smells like teen spirit" and they will tell you "Stray cat blues'. This album is so good, it should be left off the list with 'goodbye yellow brick road' and 'who's next' in simple fairness to other albums.

I could go on all day with this.

When a list of definitive albums contains the Titanic soundtrack, the Footloose soundtrack, the Top Gun soundtrack, the Dirty Dancing Soundtrack, the Forrest Gump soundtrack and highlights from Phantom of the Opera, you know the list is fucked. Speaking of soundtracks, if they like Kenny Loggins so much, where the hell is the Caddy Shack soundtrack, it was WAY better than Top Gun.

No joke here. 'I'm alright' and 'anyway you want it' beat out Top Gun hands down every fucking time.