Definitive 200 - comparisons be damned - it's the issues bitch

Before I start I have to say that I think some perspective and distance is necessary to judge whether or not an album can be defined as definitive. Saying that I think any album on a definitive list has to be at least 10 years old. To be definitive I think it has to cross a generation. Your older brother has to play it for you, or some older guy needs to tell you that "if you like those guys, well you'll love this."

Also, we can't trust ourselves. We need time and space and a lack of top 40 radio play to judge whether or not the "summer song of 2002" holds up. I am talking about MmBop here. While not on the list I think the band Aqua qualifies as a perfect example. Nobody sold more albums than those idiots, yet those albums were a fad and definitive of nothing. That is what time and distance would give us when evaluating whether or not "complicated" by Avril Lavigne is definitive or the worst written, ryhm laddened shit the world has ever seen. I don't think we can be sure if "complicated" is worthy of note or a simple SHUT THE FUCK UP BITCH.

With that in mind the definitive 200 list actually contains 157 albums.

When you see that 25% of of the list dissapears based simply on age, in a grouping spanning roughly 40 years, it becomes pretty clear that some decades didn't get enough recognition simply because the writers had to save room for 25% or an equal share of each decade.

I think it is also fair to elliminate soundtracks from the list based on the lists own requirement that no greatest hits be included. Soudtracks are little more than greatest hits collections and it is certainly not fair to compare a GH package against an album. "Purple rain" can stay and unfortunately so can "a star is born".

So the definitive 200 now contains 148 albums.

All of that and most of the 65 albums I would toss are still there. Like I said, maybe 70 could make the cut in a sane list.

Another small beef with the list is that some artists appear 3 or more time for reasons difficult to determine. For instance; Metallica has 3 albums in the top 200 of all time... I like Metallica, but that seems high. I think even the worlds biggest Metallica fan would argue that 3 is a little high when discussing the 200 of ALL TIME. Prince also has 3 albums on the list. Again, I think as much as I like Prince, if you don't have a Velvet Underground album you maybe able to sacrifice 1 Prince album. Again Jay-z, clearly influential...borrowing/sampling his way through a career appears three times. Stevie Wonder appears once. A guy whose biggest hit is with Beyonce or a redub of the Annie musical may not qualify as 'definitive' in the face of Steveie Wonder. Just saying.

Eminem gets two albums, personally I believe his debut was huge, shit we had not heard before, not style or musically, but the lyrics. This is an album I could make an exception to the ten year rule for. 'Kill you' stands out to me as a song that I can't believe was recorded, but I am happy it was. Amazing stuff, but his other album on the chart also released in 2000 screams of duplication, as every album he has put out since feels like a shallow copy. Including the lesser album from the same year seems like a HUGE watse of a place considering other omissions, see Velvet Underground.

Anita Baker also gets two albums, one which is called the blueprint for Whitney Houston and Toni Braxton the other #188 is described like this in the lists own review "... Rhythm of Love, which is so embellished with slides, moans and trills it's often difficult to find the songs underneath it all. " Sure, put it on the list. That makes a lot of sense.

Beyonce Knowles appears on 2 albums, one solo and one with Destiny's child. I think that is a little much considering the Ramones don't appear. And what about the Guess Who? If you want to talk mainstream rock and roll, success and lasting impact, they are it. I know, more fat old white guys, so to be a bit more modern and hopefull mor efair I have to wonder where PM Dawn's big album is? Everyone talks about that record to this day. Clearly influential. Or where the hell is a Sly and the Family Stone record?

One thing that really bothers me about the list is that they include a few jazz albums for no apperent reason. The list clearly reads as Beatlesque rock and new music, with pitty fucks for a few other decades, but then they tack on Miles Davis. Sure, we all love miles, but he sticks out like a sore thumb on this list.

And why are Elvis' sun sessions not considered a GH package? and if they aren't then where is a similar treatment for Chuck Berry or Little Richard? Speaking of Elvis, his first LP makes the list at #147 and is described like this "...changed American music forever. This 1956 collection was Presley's first album proper (and arguably rock's first great LP), a release that both broke him to a national audience and became an enduring piece of pop cultural iconography."

Now, sick of him or not, is there a more definitive rock and roller? This album was it for rock and rolls new generation. Like it said, a classic rock album before there was one. So THE ALBUM that lauched ELVIS. Described by many as his finest finishes life at #147

BEHIND....

all 3 Dixie Chick Albums, the soundtracks to Grease, Saturday night fever, footloose, dirty dancing, Titanic, Top Gun and O'Brother where art thou. How about behind not one, but 2 green day albums, or the clash album that it helped partially inspire? Better still the King sits well back of Celine Dion, Sheryl Crow, Christina Aguilera, Enya, Faith Hill, Norah Jones, Shania Twain, Alanis and JEWEL!

I don't think you can justify this. Sgt. Pepper has held its respect for a very long time. People complain, but it truly was an achievement, but without that first DEFINITIVE Elvis album does any of it happen? I am not saying it is number one, or should be. Time should push it down the list if music does truly progress, but to 147 after the entire artist list of Litlith fair and DIVA's 5. You haven't just ruined your own credibility you have wasted a lot of people's time.

This is just a glimpse into what beat out the ALBUM that started it all.

1. SANTANA – SUPERNATURAL
3. SHANIA TWAIN – COME ON OVER
4. ALANIS MORISSETTE – JAGGED LITTLE PILL
5. NORAH JONES – COME AWAY WITH ME
6. OUTKAST – SPEAKERBOXX-LOVE BELOW
7. DIXIE CHICKS – WIDE OPEN SPACES
8. SOUNDTRACK – GREASE
10. SOUNDTRACK – SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER
11. BON JOVI – SLIPPERY WHEN WET
12. DAVE MATTHEWS BAND – CRASH
13. GREEN DAY – DOOKIE
14. GREEN DAY – AMERICAN IDIOT
15. EMINEM – EMINEM SHOW
16. JEWEL – PIECES OF YOU
17. COLDPLAY – RUSH OF BLOOD TO THE HEAD
18. KID ROCK – DEVIL WITHOUT A CAUSE
19. FAITH HILL – BREATHE
20. LINKIN PARK – HYBRID THEORY
21. MATCHBOX TWENTY – YOURSELF OR SOMEONE LIKE YOU
22. NELLY – COUNTRY GRAMMAR
23. CREED – HUMAN CLAY
24. CLASH – LONDON CALLING (great album, it is included for its cover/influence only)
25. CELINE DION – FALLING INTO YOU
26. SOUNDTRACK – DIRTY DANCING
27. DIXIE CHICKS – HOME
28. SOUNDTRACK – TITANIC
29. KENNY G – BREATHLESS
30. DIXIE CHICKS – FLY
31. MARIAH CAREY – DAYDREAM
32. SOUNDTRACK – TOP GUN
33. CHRISTINA AGUILERA – CHRISTINA AGUILERA
34. SOUNDTRACK – O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU?
35. ENYA – DAY WITHOUT RAIN
36. NATALIE COLE – UNFORGETTABLE WITH LOVE NATALIE COLE
37. SOUNDTRACK – FOOTLOOSE
38. SHERYL CROW – TUESDAY NIGHT MUSIC CLUB

In my opinion 30 of those albums don't belong on a top 500 list, but...

THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME believes that those albums trump the spark that started a fire that burned the river in Cleveland and let them build that museum to ignorance.